Exclusive Interview with Vivian Sanmartin, Ambassador of Brazil in Namibia.
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Namíbia: Unique Opportunities in Africa.
Namibia is in focus in this engaging interview, in which we had the privilege of speaking with Ambassador Vivian Sanmartin and exploring the dynamics of diplomatic relations between Brazil and Namibia.
In this fourteenth Grand Interview, we got to know Brazil's representative in Namibia better and our conversation covered crucial topics, from the growing relevance of Africa in the global panorama to the challenges faced by both countries in international dynamics.
In this enriching conversation, the Ambassador shared valuable points about her career and experience and highlighted the growing importance of Africa in the global geopolitical panorama.
Additionally, we explore the opportunities and challenges faced by Brazil and Namibia in their relations, focusing on areas such as trade, cooperation and plans to strengthen bilateral relations.
This interview offers a unique and enlightening view of diplomatic relations between Brazil and Namibia, revealing how Ambassador Sanmartin identified opportunities to expand trade and strengthen ties between these two great nations.
Join us for this fascinating conversation and discover the crucial role diplomacy plays in promoting international ties.
The interview
(Francisco Lopes-Santos) Madam Ambassador, to begin this interview, could you introduce yourself to our followers, sharing a little about your professional journey to date and how you became the Brazilian Ambassador to Namibia?
(Vivian Sanmartin) Of course, first of all, it's a pleasure to be here for this interview. Vanessa and I have been trying to find a convenient time for a while now. So, I believe the time has finally come.
Regarding myself, I will try to be brief, because it is not the most important thing here. My name is Vivian Sanmartin, I am a career diplomat. I joined the Brazilian foreign service in 1993. I worked in various sectors at the Secretariat of State and served in several countries in Europe and South America.
Before coming to Namibia as Ambassador, I was Ambassador of Brazil to Cameroon. Therefore, this is my second experience as head of a diplomatic mission in Africa.
(Vanessa Africani) Madam Ambassador, before we go into the details of your placement in Namibia and taking into account your experience, how do you assess the importance of the African continent in the current geopolitical panorama?
(VS) Look, Vanessa, at this moment, I think that the African continent is increasingly gaining strategic geopolitical importance that was not possible a few years ago. In addition to the abundance of arable land, mineral resources and energy resources, Africa has a huge young population and an immense consumer market that grows as this population becomes richer.
An important middle class will emerge in Africa. And, despite the often predominantly negative view that the international media gives of the continent and which usually only presents negative things, it is undeniable that there have been many advances in recent years and that most African countries have sought to develop their infrastructures.
Promoting the modernization of their agriculture, their industrialization, in addition to increasingly seeking to add value to their products. Add to this the creation of the African Continental Free Trade Zone, which constitutes the largest free trade area in the world, and it is clear that it is a region that is gaining importance in the global context.
The interest in investment and trade opportunities in the different regions of the continent, especially in access to its natural resources, is evident when seeing the growing presence of China, India, Turkey, Arab countries and others, in addition to the former European colonizers.
(FLS) Madam Ambassador, before we get into, so to speak, the big talk about Namibia, I would like to address the current situation in some African countries, especially in French-speaking nations. With your experience, including spending time in a country that is a former French colony, how do you analyze the increasing occurrence of coups d'état in these countries?
(VS) Look, Francisco, personally I see this multiplication of coups d'état in this recent period as a very worrying trend. Note that these countries where military coups have occurred are the same countries that have faced attacks from terrorist groups and whose population increasingly feels at the mercy of these criminals.
The fact that there was great popular support for the military who took power in several of these situations demonstrates that there is a feeling of frustration with democratically elected governments, or even with leaders who remain in power, both in terms of security and lack of security. , as in terms of lack of economic development.
On the other hand, there seems to be an illusion that, through coups d'état, the situation will improve. I believe that the most important thing is that the so-called transition periods that are announced, I experienced this, especially in relation to Chad, which in a certain way had a kind of coup d'état with the seizure of power by the son of the then president who was assassinated .
I believe that these periods have to be as short as possible and that effectively free elections with broad participation of civil society from all parties can be organized. It is the only way to resolve these issues, but it is worrying. It's actually a very worrying trend.
(FLS) I fully agree. Especially since, recently, in Mali, there was a postponement in the transition period for the elections, which left the International Community worried about what might happen.
(VA) Madam Ambassador, let's talk about your current position as Ambassador of Brazil to Namibia. Can you share your initial impressions of the country and identify the challenges and opportunities you encountered in establishing a solid bilateral relationship?
(VS) Well, since I took up my duties at the Embassy, I have been pleased to note that Namibia has enormous potential and is exploring it to become a developed and prosperous country for all. An example of this strategy is the Government's commitment to producing green hydrogen from abundant solar and wind energy resources.
There are several projects underway with investments from European countries, starting with Germany, which could transform Namibia into the renewable energy capital of Africa in the coming years. Furthermore, the country is an important producer of uranium and other minerals, including lithium, which will be in increasing demand in the manufacture of batteries for electric cars.
Namibia has also recently discovered significant oil and gas reserves, representing another area of development. The country has a modern port in the city of Walvis Bay that connects it, via good highways, to neighboring countries without access to the sea, such as Zimbabwe, Botswana, Zambia, as well as Angola and South Africa.
The government has a desire to modernize agriculture and increase local food production, which offers many opportunities for joint projects between Brazilian and Namibian businesspeople.
It is important to highlight that Namibia has a small market, with a population of 2.5 million inhabitants, but it can serve as an entry point for other countries in the region and in the future, for the African Continental Free Trade Area.
As you know, this agreement, still in the implementation phase, will create the largest free trade zone in the world, with 54 countries and an estimated GDP of 3.4 billion euros.
As for challenges, one challenge that I encountered and that needs to be overcome is the mutual lack of knowledge about the potential for exchange. There are no direct Brazilian investments here.
Namibian import businesspeople are more accustomed to dealing with South Africa, the main economic partner, and European countries, as well as China and other Asian countries.
Brazilian businesspeople also have little idea of Namibia's potential. It is essential, therefore, to promote greater knowledge about all areas in which Brazil can contribute to the development of Namibia and obtain gains in terms of business.
(FLS) Madam Ambassador, considering this mutual lack of knowledge between Brazil and Namibia, what, in your opinion, is the strategic importance of Namibia for Brazil, both in economic and political terms?
(VS) Well, Francisco, firstly, it is important to note that the term 'strategic' is used too much nowadays, and not everything can be considered strategic. I couldn't say whether Namibia is strategic for Brazil, at least not at the moment.
This does not mean that Namibia is not important for Brazil. Firstly, it is a neighboring country, and we are both part of OPAC (Organization of African, Caribbean and Pacific Countries), which is a zone of peace and cooperation in the South Atlantic.
We have this common space where we can cooperate in security, scientific research, trade, among others. We already have historic cooperation with Namibia in the naval area, with the Namibian Navy which was created and structured largely thanks to Brazilian support.
The majority of Namibian officers who occupy command positions today were trained in Brazil, and our presence here continues to be important. We have a Brazilian naval mission based in Walvis Bay and in 2024, we will celebrate 30 years since the signing of the bilateral naval cooperation agreement, within the framework of which this cooperation was developed.
As the Namibian project to promote its development through energy generation advances, opportunities for commercial, technological and investment exchange will arise. Namibia can be an important platform for Brazilian exports and investments here, as well as for other countries in the southern region.
Namibia can be a valuable gateway for Brazilian investments and products, especially due to the quality of its road infrastructure, considered the best in Southern Africa.
(VA) Madam Ambassador, what are the main areas of cooperation that you consider essential to strengthen relations between Brazil and Namibia?
(VS) Good, Vanessa. In addition to the naval cooperation that I mentioned, there is currently important cooperation being consolidated in the area of food security.
Since 2020, Brazil, through its ABC cooperation agency and in partnership with the World Food Program, has been financing five pilot projects to promote food production and job creation among marginalized ethnic groups, such as the San community.
Our goal is that these projects can become models to be replicated both in Namibia and in other African countries.
In the context of Agriculture, there is an expectation that we will soon have technical support projects for sectors considered priorities by the Namibian government. As you know, Brazil has been working in this area for many years in African countries, transferring technologies and good practices from Tropical Agriculture developed thanks to our Embrapa and the private sector.
Over the past 50 years, I hope that Namibia can also benefit from bilateral cooperation in this area. We also have nascent cooperation in the cultural area and creative industry.
Next November, the first workshop on Brazilian cinema will be held in Windhoek with the participation of renowned director Tizuka Yamasaki. The objective is to support the nascent Namibian film industry based on our national experience.
Other areas that we are exploring refer to cooperation between diplomatic academies and also police cooperation. Finally, there are several initiatives underway that should deepen and deepen our bilateral relations in the coming years.
(FLS) In a way, you have already covered the subject of the next question a little, but I would like you to delve a little deeper into this subject.
So, basically, in the short time you've been there and with your experience, what do you think are the biggest challenges that Namibia is facing in this new African context, especially with this expansion of the BRICS and the extra-border confusion, so to speak? that have greatly influenced Africa. And how do you think Brazil can help Namibia to solve these problems?
(VS) I don't know if I would put it in the context of BRICS, but Namibia has challenges that stem from the fact that it is a very young country. It only gained independence in 1990, after many years of struggle against the South African occupation and the apartheid regime that maintained an abyss between the minority white population and the black population.
In this sense, there is still great socioeconomic inequality that needs to be reduced. There is also the challenge of generating quality jobs for the young population, which is the majority in the country, as in several other African countries, as you know, and which suffers from high unemployment rates.
Brazil, by supporting, through cooperation projects, for example, in the agricultural area, as well as in other areas, Namibia can contribute to the generation of jobs and the reduction of these inequalities. The policies adopted in our country, such as Bolsa Família and our single health system, the SNS, in turn, can serve as a model for the Namibian government.
I am informed that there are studies to implement a universal public health system here and also economic support for more vulnerable populations. I see a very interesting potential for exchange in this area. Furthermore, as the driest country in Sub-Saharan Africa, Namibia already faces problems related to drought every year.
Climate change has been exacerbating this condition and, therefore, it is essential that the country adopts mitigation and adaptation measures. We also have experience in this area, as our Northeast has similar characteristics to parts of Namibia.
I see that some of these challenges are development challenges that Brazil can contribute to with projects, technology and experiences that Brazil already has. There are many areas, many challenges too, but there are many areas in which we can have closer cooperation.
(VA) Madam Ambassador, in terms of trade, we were even talking about this subject yesterday, the volume of trade between the two countries is relatively low.
Brazil mainly exports manufactured products such as machinery and equipment to Namibia, while Namibia exports minerals, mainly diamonds, to Brazil. What are your ideas and plans to promote greater understanding and cooperation between Brazil and Namibia during your term as Ambassador?
(VS) Well, our trade exchanges are actually extremely small, I could even say irrelevant. There is no significant trade between Brazil and Namibia. The records we have here from our SECOM, which was recently created this year, indicate that last year the main products exported by Brazil were chicken and sugar, more than machinery and equipment.
The Namibian export basket, in turn, was dominated by minerals. He talked about diamonds, but it's all in a very small volume. If you look at the volumes, they are actually very low.
And it is for this reason that since I took over as head of the embassy, I have sought to identify opportunities for this situation to be changed. I think the low volume of trade is due to lack of awareness on both sides of the existing opportunities.
We want to promote Namibia as a destination for exports, taking into account the possibility of the country serving as an entry point for Brazilian products in other regions and other countries that do not have access to the sea. And in the same way, I believe that Namibia should explore opportunities in the Brazilian market, for example, with regard to fish.
Currently, the excellent quality fish from Namibia that reaches the Brazilian market comes largely through Spain, believe it or not. I believe that we can avoid this triangulation by establishing contacts between importers and exporters and creating a regular maritime line between Brazil and Namibia. There are some examples.
(FLS) Madam Ambassador, we are practically at the end of the interview, I have seen, as they say... that you have prepared well and are well informed, in a way, you can see that you have a certain objective and are trying to create something to help strengthen the Namibia.
So, let's talk about this aspect. In general, what are your perspectives for the future of relations between Brazil and Namibia and how do you seek to contribute to strengthening these relations?
(VS) Good. First of all, that's my job, to stay informed. If I wasn't doing that, I wouldn't be working well. But to answer your question, the prospects seem excellent to me. We have a relationship that has always been very good, but I think it was not very dense.
That was my impression when I started preparing to come here. I didn't see many areas where we were having cooperation. The trade is very small. So, it's like, I thought there was a lot to do and I still think so.
We are moving forward in diversifying our cooperation and deepening the relationship. In November we will have the second meeting of bilateral political consultations in Windhoek, with the arrival of the secretary for Africa and the Middle East, Ambassador Carlos Duarte, who is currently our secretary for Africa at Itamarati.
It will be an opportunity to discuss a broad agenda of topics and define lines of action for next year. Ultimately, my contribution, with the fundamental support of the embassy team, has been to explore all possibilities to strengthen our relationship. I don't know if I answered your question.
(FLS) Clearly. And yes, you're right, it's your job. But, I just wanted to let people who are going to read the interview know a little about what you actually do, because, to be honest, people often don't understand what an Ambassador does.
As a general rule, they think that an Ambassador's work is just to pass some signatures and authorizations and they have no perspective or no idea of the reality of an Ambassador's work.
(VS) The diplomat's work is very broad. Every time you have to define what a diplomat does, you can write a whole page, understand? So, it's hard to define, because we do a lot of things.
There is all the work, let's say, as you said, there is bureaucratic work, there is consular work, there is commercial promotion, there is cultural promotion, there is the promotion of multilateral relationships and multilateral collaboration, coordination. We do all this and more.
So, as you do this well and have this closer relationship in various sectors, you will have better quality. Evidently, our work here is to bring countries closer together through dialogue, cooperation, and trade. I think this is the main function of the diplomat.
(VA) Well, Madam Ambassador, to end our interview, I would like to ask a question that we ask all the Brazilians we interview. Based on your experience, what do you think has not yet been done, but should have been done in general to increase bilateral trade between Brazil and Africa?
(VS) It's a difficult question. Anyway, we always ask ourselves why Brazilian business is no longer present here. From the experience I had in Cameroon and the experience I am having here, I believe that the Brazilian business community, with the support of entities such as Apex, which is our Export Promotion Agency, needs to have a new look at Africa, seeing it as to like the huge market it is.
Africa needs infrastructure, such as highways, railways, ports, airports and energy generation. It needs capital goods to add value to its products, industrialize, mechanize agriculture and acquire knowledge in this area, among many other needs.
While Brazil is not present, other countries are increasingly investing in the continent. Turkey and India, for example, have seen very significant increases in their manufactured exports to African countries in recent years.
Brazil has ample conditions to compete in various sectors, such as civil engineering, agriculture and the supply of manufactured products. If we don't occupy that space, others will, and some are already doing so.
I understand that we are experiencing a new phase in the Brazilian government, with a prioritization of Africa, a “return to Africa“. In recent years, Africa seemed to receive less attention in public policies, there was a certain neglect or lack of interest.
I have the impression that, if the government promotes it and the agencies support it, it will be possible to interest business people in Africa, in addition to known markets, such as South America and Europe and some Asian nations. Africa is a territory that has not yet been explored, but, for this very reason, whoever anticipates will conquer its space. Brazil needs to reduce this disadvantage.
Our presence is still timid, unfortunately. I believe that, with everything we have to offer and our capital of “soft power“, in other words, with the sympathy and trust we aroused, we could make better use of this opportunity. This is my assessment and we work to increasingly promote this approach.
(FLS) Thank you very much for your answer. I just want to add something. As an Angolan, I have always been intrigued by a question regarding Brazil. Angola and Brazil have always been brotherly countries, even during the colonial period. Angola received products from Brazil more easily than from the metropolis. After independence, there was significant support from Brazil, but suddenly Brazil disappeared.
I never understood why, because Brazil is geographically in the same region as Africa, has a similar climate and faces similar challenges. Everything suggested that Brazil would be the ideal partner for Africa. I'm sad about this absence. My childhood was strongly influenced by Brazil and today, we miss this sister country. I hope that, with this government, things will change.
(VS) I think so. There was a movement in the first years of the Lula government, with companies establishing themselves here, but this movement, focused mainly on construction companies, was incomplete. Brazil has much more to offer in several areas and, little by little, it is realizing this.
There was a period when foreign policy towards Africa almost did not exist, as if Africa had been neglected. Now, there is a great expectation on the part of African countries that Brazil will strengthen these relations, due to geographic, climatic and cultural similarities.
I hope that Apex, for example, opens representations and makes Brazil become more present. Other countries are already taking advantage of this opportunity.
(VA) Madam Ambassador, I would like to thank you for your presence, participation and time dedicated to our interview. I also want to express my gratitude for the relationship we have built since our time in Cameroon. I wish you every success in your mission in Namibia and, once again, I thank you for your availability.
(FLS) For my part, it was also a pleasure to meet you.
(VS) No, I'm the one who thanks you. I find it interesting to exchange these ideas. The pleasure was all mine.
What do you think of this interview? You got to know Namibia better We want to know your opinion, do not hesitate to comment and if you liked the article, share and give a “like/like”.
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Picture: © DR
