A Different Vision of the Future of Guinea-Bissau.
Exclusive Interview to Mais Afrika by Domingos Simões Pereira, president of the African Party for the Independence of Guinea-Bissau And Cape Verde (PAIGC).
Please accept YouTube cookies to play this video. By accepting you will be accessing content from YouTube, a service provided by an external third party.
If you accept this notice, your choice will be saved and the page will refresh.
-------------------------------
Accept YouTube cookies to play this video. By accepting, you will be accessing content from YouTube, a service provided by third parties.
If you accept, your choice will be saved and the page will refresh.
Guinea-Bissau is the focus of this engaging and enlightening interview, in which we had the privilege of speaking with Domingos Simões Pereira, president of PAIGC, former Prime Minister of Guinea-Bissau and former Executive Secretary of CPLP.
In this fifteenth Great Interview, which was very enlightening, we got to know the president of PAIGC better, who shared his vision on the development, stability and investments needed for his country in the coming years.
We discuss the country's economic prospects and the measures needed to transform its potential into real development. Simões Pereira highlighted the role of political stability, infrastructure and the importance of a strategic vision for the future of Guinea-Bissau.
Questions about democracy in Africa and particularly in West Africa were also addressed, as well as the need for local leaders to commit to the well-being of their countries and the need to govern to meet the needs of the People.
But most important of all, Domingos Simões Pereira shared his particular vision of a bright future for Guinea-Bissau, based on investment and the resilience of the Guinean people.
Join us in this fascinating conversation and discover what must be done so that Guinea-Bissau has a future different from its current present.
The interview
(Francisco Lopes-Santos) Mr. Engineer, thank you very much for accepting Mais África’s invitation to do this interview. It's a pleasure to have you here with us. Engineer Domingos Simões Pereira is president of the African Party for the Independence of Guinea-Bissau and Cape Verde (PAIGC).
He has also held other positions, including executive secretary of the CPLP and prime minister of Guinea-Bissau. But there is no one better to present himself than himself.
(Domingos Simões Pereira) I hope that, throughout this interview, I can contribute something interesting to the knowledge of our countries and the opportunities they represent. In terms of presentation, I think I'm well presented. I will simply add that I have basic training in civil engineering, although, probably, in recent times, I am better known in other areas.
(FLS) The first question of this interview is simple: how do you see the current situation in Guinea-Bissau, especially from an economic and investment point of view?
(DSP) It is always very difficult to dissociate this economic assessment from political assumptions. But I think that's exactly the challenge. So we recognize that, regardless of these difficulties, how do we look at the economic outlook?
I think it is necessary to say that, unfortunately, our countries continue to be countries with great economic potential. The great difficulty has been converting this potential into concrete realities, into concrete gains. Therefore, I continue to emphasize that it is, in practice, impossible to separate the political component.
Guinea-Bissau has great potential, because I think that the foundation of the development of any society must be a real knowledge of its potential and a strategic vision that has the capacity to transform these potential into concrete gains.
When we talk about Guinea-Bissau, we talk mainly about four or five major development potentials. Cashew nuts have already gained a very important space, but unfortunately, we continue to export them raw, without any local use, without adding added value to this product, without offering local labor.
For people, what is offered is internally residual. Therefore, we export jobs to India and other areas. One of the first products, in terms of Guinea-Bissau's potential, is cashew nuts.
Then we have tourism. Anyone who knows Guinea and knows that we have an archipelago of more than 80 islands, 30 of which have the potential to be inhabited, offers enormous potential. But what are islands? How can we talk about tourism, otherwise there is no investment and no infrastructure.
But I also have to start from behind and say that there is no stability and, therefore, there are no conditions of security. Third, I would talk about fishing, it is one of those sectors that demonstrate the great difficulty we have in articulating our potential for effective gains. We continue to have a country with a large platform in terms of fishing, but we have reduced fishing activity to issuing licenses.
It is well known that this is a wrong strategy. We cannot exploit our full potential by granting fishing licenses to other entities that come to explore our potential and without creating a local industry that can promote its best use. I would say that, in terms of production, we were already a potential.
It is good to remember that in the 60s Guinea exported rice, today we depend heavily on imports. Especially because we are a riverine country, a flat country, where with the rise in the average sea level, we are losing very important cultivation areas. So you need to look at that too.
And finally, what many people like to put as number one, we like to put as last, mining resources.
Because, in other words, if the economy is not structured, if all the necessary infrastructure is not created for this purpose, the fact that we have important reserves of phosphate and other minerals may not have the significance that it could and should have. Therefore, this is the picture in terms of potential that the country has.
(FLS) He mentioned the great potential of Guinea-Bissau, such as tourism and fishing, and also the issues of the lack of processing of export products, such as Cashew. In his opinion, what concrete measures would need to be taken to transform this potential into real development?
(DSP) I think that, in addition to being able to share with you the measures that I would take, I am in a position to tell you the measures that we took in 2014 to really call on the Guinean nation to turn the page and be able to, as I just said, leave from potential to reality, to its realization.
From the outset, it is necessary to remember that the assumption of stability here is unavoidable. Therefore, I, the representative of a party that won the elections with an absolute majority, forget, in quotation marks, that victory with an absolute majority and invite the largest opposition party to join us in forming the government.
Leaving this political part, I say the following: when we began the exercise that led to the elaboration of our strategic operational plan, which was named 'Terra Ranca,' the first sheet of the analysis that we presented was the relationship between the framework of instability and economic growth.
To demonstrate that what we often tend to think, in political and social terms, that great revolutions, great changes in political terms, will open up great perspectives in economic terms, has really been a disaster.
Therefore, at the time, we said very clearly that, if anyone in Guinea thinks they have an obligation to save us, they better understand that this salvation has resulted in the sinking of the country. Therefore, we all need to be aligned with stability, because only with stability can we create the necessary confidence so that there is an economic framework favorable to growth.
Following this observation, we said very clearly that we needed to attack the strongest asymmetries that society faced. I'll give you two, three examples. We, in 2014, faced the situation where there were no schools, the years were zero years. As now, they are again. Our entire health infrastructure was collapsing.
Therefore, we said that we needed an emergency plan, an urgency plan that we had to implement in a period of no more than one year to create those conditions. Because, I think we all understand that it is impossible to say to someone who is hungry: Let's stop and let's think. No, he's hungry, he has to eat first.
So, we created an emergency program that was implemented over a 6-month period to give us the necessary cushion to really reflect on our strategic plan. It was at the end of these 6 months that we came up with a strategic plan.
And why is the strategic plan important? Because it is important to have a vision, a vision of where we are calling the nation. A vision of where we want the nation to converge.
Because, if we are on the same page, the different entities, whether from the Legislative Branch, the Executive Branch and even the Judicial Branch, will have difficulties in being able to create the National Consensus necessary to attract foreign investment. So this component was really very important.
And when we started the process of preparing this strategic plan, we opened the doors so that it would not be a government exercise. We called on all national competencies that were in the country or outside the country to help us reflect the country. We basically ask two questions, at most three questions.
The first was to say that we ourselves are invited to speak in our country. We always start with what is most fateful. It is not a country of coups d'état, a country of drug trafficking, a country of successive wars, of conflicts.
We said that, to attract investment, we need to find a different story, a story that is capable of attracting, especially knowing that this story exists, this good, positive Guinea exists. Now we need to be convincing about the story we want to tell and find the right partners.
It was on this basis that, with the presence of eminent people from Guinea-Bissau, such as Carlos Lopes, Paulo Gomes, and many people who came from various provinces in an exercise that involved civil society, government, all entities interested in this exercise, including local government and religious authorities.
We concluded that the most important thing Guinea-Bissau had to give to the world, what we can say that without Guinea-Bissau the world would be different, was and is our biodiversity. I will mention just three, four examples. A first example: we are practically the only country in the world that has around 26% of its national territory made up of protected areas.
Protected areas, according to us, we have a coastal area that houses a forest in Guinea we call 'terrace,' which is a fish breeding area that the rest of the west African coast does not have. In other words, to a certain extent, what we will find as fishing reserves in Senegal, Mauritania and many of those countries, does not come from the mangroves of Guinea.
Therefore, based on this assumption, we understand that all the policies we are going to develop must have a point of urgency towards protecting our biodiversity.
The second question we asked at the time was to ask ourselves: What is the Guinean's aspiration? Because it's impossible to win a race if you don't know where the finish line is. So, what does the Guinean want?
And it is based on this that we were able to, listening to all those involved, there was no exercise aimed at the intellectual or the man in the square or the man in the field, it was an integrated exercise where everyone expressed their aspirations. And those most experienced in these formulations helped us to reach a consensus in formulating what the Guinean citizen's aspiration is.
And it was the formulation that said that we have to start from a base of stability to promote correct, transparent administrative management, and that is capable of enhancing or using our potential for integral development that places Guinean women and men in the center of this attention.
The third issue was having formulated this strategic vision, we said that it was important to know the pillars of development, the pillars of growth of our economy that I just described, but we also needed to know what the catalytic factors are, factors such as energy, factors such as numerical development.
Therefore, the information component, but also have the social component to be able to truly place the Guinean man and woman in the center of attention. This is the picture, this vision, it may not be the brightest.
But it is a vision shared by Guineans and it was important, in our view, that in a minimum period of 5 to 10 years we were able to maintain this path and continued to invite all Guineans to participate in this process.
(FLS) He mentioned the importance of changing the narrative of Guinea-Bissau as part of this change and, considering stability as a basis, what structuring projects he believes are necessary to create to have a significant impact and that could be vehicles to change this narrative and improve living conditions of people on a daily basis.
(DSP) I think, as I was saying, I already mentioned our emergency program, which had the ambition to be implemented in six months to a year. I spoke about our strategic plan, which is the medium and long-term vision. Between these two programs, we present a program that we call the contingency program.
What is the intention of the contingency program? It is about overcoming the basic difficulties in relation to the functioning of schools, hospitals, energy, payment of salaries, those most pressing issues.
We understand that it is necessary to regain the trust of the Guinean, and to win the trust of the Guinean in all sectors and all spheres of activity, it is necessary to promote a transparent administration, an administration that gives guarantees to the Guinean citizen of judicious and in accordance with the established rules of your income.
Therefore, in addition to other reforms that I could mention here, we worked fundamentally on creating a platform that should allow all Guineans in the country and in the diaspora to have access to all information at any time of the day or night. that had to do with public procurement.
Because it is important for Guinean citizens to trust those who are exercising governance, because only then can we truly bring the entire nation together in a single direction.
This platform really started to be created. We had consultancy from a technician who worked on what he called trust creation mechanisms, and we think that this is very important.
Now, going specifically to the projects, because I think that it is by establishing this base that we will be able to make the transformational investments that our society needs.
There is no doubt here, the country's biggest problem is infrastructure. But an infrastructure that cannot lose sight of the fact that it has to create jobs for the population. Look, we have a country that, in terms of infrastructure, is completely out of step.
When we refer to the years 73-74, the years of Independence, it is not the new administration that inherited a colonial administration. A colonial administration, at least the Portuguese colonial administration, could not have a vocation for development. The vocation of this administration was to create conditions for the perpetuation of this regime.
Why am I saying this? This is not simply to offend the political component, it is to say that the creation of infrastructure never followed the logic of development. What is the most expressive example of this reality? I can give the example of road infrastructure. I worked on this component for a long time.
Guinea-Bissau's road network consists of around 1.385 km of roads, including main, secondary and other roads. You will see that, of these 1.385 km, probably less than 1 will be the number of roads that the south has.
And why is this relevant? Because the South is our granary, it is our production area. Therefore, we have infrastructures placed where there is no production and where there is production, these infrastructures do not exist.
I, in my role as director general of roads, have always believed that when faced with the reality of doing a feasibility study, such as the Bub Caap road feasibility study, we would face a situation in which all potential financiers , like the ADB, would use the economic viability analysis mechanism through traffic counting.
This would result in the fact that, when counting traffic between Buba and Catió, we would not find any vehicles. Why? Because the area was not in good condition and was not attractive. It took us a long time to convince ADB that the calculation method was wrong.
The correct calculation method to be used in these cases is the potential method. Therefore, when evaluating the production potential in the southern zone, including Catió, Quinara and the entire southern region, this agricultural production potential, but not only, needs to be distributed by the number of trucks needed for its evacuation.
Thus, we went from a road profitability rate of 4,5% to more than 12%. It's obvious, because that's the reality. Therefore, we Guineans need to understand this reality. It’s not about me saying that we don’t want roads between Bal and Safim, or between Bal and…
No, we need these roads, but I have to have a clear understanding of where the growth potential lies and where I should invest first.
We begin to accumulate wealth, and it is with this wealth that we can build other complementary infrastructures. We must ensure that wherever there are Guinean citizens, they have the right to the same conditions as others. However, if we do not start in places with the capacity for economic profitability, we will be a social government, but not a sustainable one, as the economy will not sustain itself.
It is this balance that led us to draw the new infrastructure map of Guinea. People questioned why we are building in Bafatá and not in Gabu. In our document, we explain that, for example, when we have three provinces, we are not talking about the center.
We have the South province, which encompasses the regions of Quinara, Tombali on the mainland, and Bama Bagó on the eastern islands. We have Gabu and Bafatá in the North, with Cacheu and Oio above all.
So where should we start? When we choose the country's infrastructure, we focus on the potential for our economic growth. We have the prospect of creating jobs, with the goal that, in five years, Guinea-Bissau will be able to create at least 40.000 direct and indirect jobs. However, this requires following the established plan
(FLS) Let's talk about a current topic. As you know, there have been a series of coups d'état in West Africa, in the so-called Francophone countries, that is, in the former French colonies, and in addition to these consecutive coups d'état, there have been changes to the constitutions by some presidents in order to execute a third term. What do you think of this situation?
(DSP) I think that African leaders must begin to realize that they cannot govern to satisfy international agendas. They must govern to meet the needs of our own population. What does that mean? We cannot continually state that democracy is such a complex regime that faces difficulties in imposing itself in Africa.
Then we make all kinds of adjustments and arrangements, and then it goes wrong. I think it is necessary to say clearly and without equivocation that when democratic institutions do not work, we must invite the population and the living forces of the nation to look for other types of solutions, and that is what is happening in these countries.
We all remember that the African Union loudly proclaimed “Zero Tolerance” to coups d’état. However, “Zero Tolerance” to coups must be accompanied by “Zero Tolerance” to changes to countries’ democratic devices.
Therefore, when we are unable to do this, what does it mean to say “Zero Tolerance” to scams when we know that we are not fulfilling the expectations of our own people? The people will one day take responsibility for restoring normality.
It could go wrong, but the intention is always to return to the starting point and see if we can really straighten out the cucumber that was born crooked. It usually goes wrong, but that's the intention.
When I say that it is necessary to govern from within, I am referring to the accountability mechanism that is fundamental in a democratic exercise. It must be done with a view to responding to the demands of our own people, and this is fundamental.
(FLS) Thank you very much. It's been a pleasure being here with you. To conclude this interview, can you tell us what your vision is for Guinea-Bissau in the next 5 to 10 years?
(DSP) Development, peace and stability are products that result from investments, human investments, financial investments, investments in dialogue, and therefore we cannot simply pray and hope that all these attributes will appear by themselves.
They won't appear. If Cabral and the freedom fighters of the Fatherland had not taken up the fight for independence, it would not have happened. Another type of independence could have occurred, but self-determination and the total and unconditional independence of our country would not have happened.
Therefore, we have a responsibility to fight for a democratic rule of law in Guinea-Bissau. There will always be a need for control. Therefore, we must establish rules that are so transparent and objective that anyone who reaches this point must comply with the established rules of the game.
If we believe that, like other people in the world, we deserve to live in peace and stability, we must build a country that shelters its people and creates conditions. I often say that there can be no other paradise in the world for Guineans other than Guinea-Bissau.
One of two: either we want and are willing to invest to transform ambition into reality in our paradise, or we cannot continue to blame others for not offering us what they offer themselves. But I believe in Guineans, I believe in our resilience.
What is probably lasting is coming to the conclusion that there are no free lunches. Therefore, if we want lunch to be good, we have to plant, water, harvest, cook and, in the end, serve the lunch that we all want and in which we all want to participate.
(FLS) Once again, thank you very much for agreeing to give us this interview. It was a pleasure to be here with you and, who knows, even in the next opportunity.
(DSP) Thank you, it was a pleasure to be here. I can guarantee you that I will be a listener and an attentive follower of your platform and your page because it has quality and because it is needed in our space for debate.
What do you think of this interview? Did you get to know Guinea-Bissau better? We want to know your opinion, do not hesitate to comment and if you liked the article share and give a “like/like”.
See too:
Guinea-Bissau: The Business Future Is At The Door
The AfDB and the importance of the PALOP in Africa
Picture: © DR
