Exclusive Interview with Mais Afrika, by Nilson César Guimarães, agricultural attaché at the Brazilian Embassy in Rabat, in the Kingdom of Morocco.
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From transgenics to the importance of Brazil for Africa.
In yet another very interesting interview, conducted for our YouTube channel, +Áfrika, the current Brazilian agricultural attaché in Morocco, Nilson César Castanheira Guimarães, told us a little about his career and the scientific research he has carried out.
We also talked about the controversial issue of transgenic agricultural products and their potential for the future.
We also talked about the points of contribution between Brazil and Morocco and how this bilateral relationship with Africa in general can be improved.
And, of course, in a World Cup year (World Cup), we also talked about football…
Read the full interview here, or watch the video on the +Afrika channel.
The interview
More Afrika (MA): Hi Nilson, it's a pleasure to be here with you. To begin with, and for our listeners to get to know you a little better, you can tell us who you currently occupy and tell us a little about your journey to the moment you are today, at the Embassy of Morocco?
Nilson César Guimaraes (NCG): Good morning, It is a pleasure to grant this interview to Mais Afrika. My name is Nilson César Castanheira Guimarães, I am a federal tax auditor, agricultural, of the Ministry of Agriculture of Brazil. Since 2007, I have held this position, we participate in a selection process, a Public Contest so that I can occupy this position.
Since I joined, my activity has always been linked to the laboratory area. In 2007, I joined the Federal Laboratory of Agricultural Defense in Minas Gerais, Brazil and from there until 2018, I held several positions within the laboratory, including technical coordination of this laboratory.
Later, in 2018, I went to Brasília, I also continued working in the laboratory area, but there, in the coordination of development and innovation, for all the Ministry's laboratories in Brazil and, from 2019, I was also selected in an internal public contest of the Ministry, to occupy the post of agricultural attaché here at the Brazilian Embassy in Rabat, in the Kingdom of Morocco.
I am an agronomist by training, this is one of the requirements for the position of tax auditor, we have an option, 5 possible careers, one of which is agronomist. So, that's why I'm in this position and, since then, I've been agricultural attaché here at the Brazilian embassy in Rabat.
(BAD): Nilson, you are currently working as an agricultural attaché at the Brazilian Embassy in Rabat, Morocco. Could you explain to us in a very simple way what work you do there in Morocco?
(NCG): Yes, the agricultural attaché job is very important. It is a technical support job, for the Ambassador and the embassy team.
So, the Ministry of Foreign Affairs receives support from the attaché, in those technical matters, and the Ministry of Agriculture, which is our original body, is the body that will receive our local technical support and administrative support, so that we can carry out within of the country the technical actions that are recommended by our Ministry.
So, in addition to this support with information, we work directly on market openings. So, all market opening actions that require dialogue with local bodies, this dialogue is done by us.
All cooperation actions as well, so the memoranda of understanding, the agreements, all count with the dialogue also of the agricultural attaché. The commercial promotion part and the promotion of the country's image, participation in fairs, fairs, all this also requires our participation and support for stakeholders.
So the Brazilian stakeholders that do business or intend to establish business in the country, they also have the support of agricultural attachés.
So Brazilian companies that intend to invest or export to Morocco, or even Brazilian companies that intend to import from Morocco, they count on our local support to assist in these operations.
(BAD): To prepare for this interview, I have been reading your CV thoroughly. I must tell you that I found it quite interesting, because, in a way, I found some similarities with myself, because my initial training is as a chemical engineer, and there was something that I found very curious.
It was a work he carried out on the genetic improvement of eucalyptus. Can you tell us a little about this work or, to be more exact, what would be the benefits of this eucalyptus improvement for nature and for human beings?
(NCG): Of course, this is a job I did when I finished my Masters. I did a master's degree at the Federal University of Lavras, in Brazil, I finished it in 2005 and, after the master's degree, I went to a private company where I worked for 2 and a half years, before, in 2007, joining the tax auditor career at the Ministry of Brazil Agriculture.
During this period, we applied the knowledge we acquired at the university, related to genetic improvement and molecular biology. The species of plant I worked with was eucalyptus.
The impacts, as you asked, are very interesting because the eucalyptus is a kind of plant, where its multiplication today, almost in its entirety, in commercial implantations, is through clonal multiplication.
In other words, eucalyptus trees are clones of each other. Genetic improvement is based on selection of these clones. However, in order for us to obtain these clones with greater productivity and greater potential, we need a genetic basis, a wide genetic variability.
And this genetic variability, obviously, cannot be obtained from the clones, because the genetic variability of the clone is almost zero, it is low, because the cones are identical. So we have to resort to that previous genetic basis, which is planting through seeds and crosses between this seed, for improvement.
So the work we did was the visual selection, the production selection and the quality selection of the plants. You needed to see if that wood that the plant is going to produce has the quality you want for the application you are going to use.
If the cut in plant size and production is adequate and for that we use a lot of statistics, obviously, we have field trials, with these varieties from planted seeds, there you have a very large variation between the plant.
We will select the most visually interesting and most productive ones. We will evaluate wood characteristics and, if that tree or that group of trees stands out in all characteristics, we will produce clones from it.
These clones are produced from seedlings and then we produce them, take them to the nursery and produce an infinite amount of seedlings, then these seedlings are transplanted to the field and commercial production begins.
It is interesting to comment that genetic improvement, as I said, also focuses on quality and that quality depends a lot on the application. I worked with the genetic improvement of eucalyptus for the production of charcoal.
And for the production of charcoal, the density of the wood is very important, because the lignin in the wood is very important, but there are other companies and other researchers who work, for example, in the improvement of eucalyptus for the production of paper, the characteristic in paper is another, there the production of cellulose is important.
So there's where cellulose in wood is more important than the lignin content which is when you look for charcoal. So it is a field that is really very interesting and very exciting too.
You work with the selection of plants and you see your work transforming into something concrete. It is extremely tasty, it was a great experience.
(BAD): I believe so. When I finished my degree, I wanted to pursue genetics. But my interest was to study the human genome. But I never believed that it was possible to break the moral barriers of human beings and I made the mistake of opting for another area and ended up going to analytical chemistry.
Unfortunately, the emergence of AIDS allowed us to study the human genome and today I am very sorry that I didn't go to that area, because, in fact, I loved it. I understand what you're saying, it's interesting that we take this work and see it grow and do something to improve the environment and human beings themselves.
But back to the questions. In March of this year you participated in a university event, on the theme “The power of agriculture”, where he addressed the issue of expansion and opportunities for Brazilian agribusiness. We don't want you to repeat what you said here, but could you talk a little bit about this pertinent topic?
(NCG): Of course, this was a very interesting event and the focus was really on commenting on our revolution in Brazilian agriculture, especially since the 70s.
Brazil, from the 70s onwards, has transformed itself from an importing country into an exporting country, in fact a major food exporter and, in this event, I commented exactly on the role of research and development of universities, in this true revolution green event that took place in Brazil.
I think that, as you mentioned, in relation to the African continent, I think that the continent is huge and has very different challenges, in this matter of applying research and development, in the growth of agriculture in Africa.
And in Brazil, this development that we had, mainly based on research and development companies and universities, it can be replicated in large amounts on the African continent.
And at this event I commented on this, on the possibility of Morocco, as a player also in Africa, what has been done here and what we have done in Brazil and how important this was, for Brazil to reach huge rates today. and the great success it has as a food exporter.
(BAD): Nilson, working there in Morocco, as agricultural attaché at the Brazilian embassy, is sure that at this moment he must be well aware of the reality of the cereal shortage that is taking place in the country, further aggravated by the current war in Ukraine. Do you think this reality is very different from the rest of the African continent?
(NCG): Look, I think so. Despite the problem being the same for everyone, affecting everyone, the problem of grain shortages because of the war, Morocco has suffered enormously from this, so much so that Brazil is currently exporting wheat to Morocco in large quantities.
What is new, Brazil, in theory, is not an exporter of wheat, much less to Morocco and this year it is breaking record after record in wheat exports.
But I believe that the panorama is very different from the rest of the continent, because Morocco has excellent agriculture.
Morocco is a country with a lot of agricultural development, with very strong irrigated agriculture, which is not the rule on the African continent.
So, the production of cereals here, although Morocco, in my opinion, is not a country that has great potential to be a granary for Africa or for the world, you have other countries that would have this condition of being a granary, however, these countries on many occasions, in many situations, they have much worse production conditions.
So, answering a little bit, along with the previous question, development research would be key so that we could have a greater development of these countries, so that they could be important players for the world to overcome in a smoother way a lack of cereals, as has been happening at the moment.
Now, as I said, the potentials are different, the realities are different, in Morocco, I think it cannot be taken as a comparison because the level of development of Moroccan agriculture, even in a relatively limited area, is quite satisfactory and we don't see this in other African countries very often.
(BAD): Nilson, since we were talking about the lack of cereals in Africa and its area of intervention, being related to this issue, what do you think Africa should do to eliminate this dependence that it has on other continents?
(NCG): Look, it's like I said. The first thing is investment and research into technology and technification in general.
Research in technology comes with it and you need to technify and today Africa has many places, I know, not only because of Morocco where I work, but because of the knowledge of other people who also report, there is a very large deficit in agriculture technification.
So I think that investment, perhaps a partnership with other countries or even local government investment, for better technology, for greater productivity growth, that would be the key, so that Africa could detach itself from this dependence and could become a de facto player, but autonomous.
It is an expanding frontier, in many similarities with what we went through in the green revolution that I mentioned and I believe that it has the potential for, let's say, in a few decades, to be a great breadbasket of the world, along with Brazil and Eastern Europe, Eastern Europe.
(BAD): His academic background is agronomy, but he has a master's degree in agrochemistry with a predilection for biochemistry and an emphasis on molecular biology. Am I seeing a pattern here? Do you mean that you are a supporter of transgenic agricultural products or are you against it?
(NCG): Great question, neither for nor against, because since 2007, when I joined the laboratory, my first laboratory, where I worked, in the first laboratory unit, was the detection of transgenic products.
There, I worked at the Ministry of Agriculture, I stayed in that area for 5 years. I worked exactly with the detection of limits and the labeling of transgenic products and the verification of the compliance of these products with the Brazilian legislation.
And as I was at that point, I was right on the fence. I could neither be pro nor be against it, because I was working with labeling, so I was guaranteeing consumer safety, but I was also guaranteeing that whoever produced it produced correctly in accordance with the legislation.
About being for or against, it all depends. It depends on the scientific evaluation that this product has passed. So I actually, I'm for science. Scientific and careful risk assessment and confidence in the decision-making process of the competent bodies.
In Brazil, for example, we have the national biosafety technical commission, CTNBio, which is the collegiate body responsible for evaluating processes, evaluating transgenic products.
And then, the products are submitted to this commission, a technical commission formed by people of the highest caliber and who evaluate the pertinence and the possibility or not of this product being commercialized and safety. Based on this assessment, I am totally in favor of its being commercialized.
But I am not in favor of indiscriminate marketing. I think it is a case-by-case evaluation with a scientific basis and then yes, we, without hysteria, without great passions, this is very important, transgenics cannot be mixed with passion, transgenics is the evaluation of genetically modified organisms, it is something that it must be done without passions, without emotions, based on reason and science.
(BAD): Nilson, to conclude this part of the interview, I would like to ask one last question on a pertinent topic. What kind of actions do you think can be developed by the Brazilian government in order to boost agribusiness trade between Brazil and Morocco?
(NCG): This question is very important. Brazil and Morocco are extremely complementary countries and Brazil and Morocco don't care, despite dating and discovering each other, they are still very unknown to each other and I see an immense potential for collaboration, cooperation and commercial, technical and scientific exchange between these countries.
Morocco is a major exporter of phosphate, I would say that it is Morocco's main product and Brazil is a major importer of phosphate. Morocco is a big food importer, Brazil a big food exporter.
Morocco, in my opinion, and this I have already reported on both the Moroccan side and the Brazilian side, sometimes ventures to seek self-sufficiency in food production that often seems to me incompatible with the size of the country and the climatic conditions of the country. .
And Brazil has every condition to propose itself as a strategic partner in this field of food and Morocco, with this thriving, modern agriculture that I was talking about, can dedicate itself, perhaps, to producing products of greater, or greater added value.
Morocco is a great exporter of vegetables to Europe, you have peppers, melons, tomatoes and Morocco exports all this to Europe, exports well and is a leader in several of these products.
On the other hand, cereals, as we said, I don't see much sense in Morocco producing cereals in a small area, since it is a product of low added value and highly dependent on weather conditions.
Morocco is very exposed to these drought variations, rainfall problems and high temperatures that greatly affect the country's cereal production and Brazil can propose itself as a strategic partner.
So I think that the Brazilian government and us have been trying to propose this, always alerting our governments and also the Moroccan side.
The Brazilian government, in my opinion, has to propose itself as a strategic partner of Morocco so that it can guarantee the supply and supply of fertilizers in Brazil and it can guarantee that Morocco is not so affected by the shocks of the discontinuity of production. of food in the world.
If the governments enter into an agreement, in order to converge on this complementarity, I think we have everything to have a very strategic partner and to increase trade exchanges greatly with Morocco.
Here, during the period I was here, I can see a fantastic potential partner for Brazil, especially if we can see the size that Morocco has in Africa and the size that Morocco can have as a partner for Brazil.
(BAD): Nilson, thank you very much for granting us this interview, but before we say goodbye, don't forget our challenge. We asked you to choose, on our Mais Afrika website, a recently published piece of news and comment on it.
The news you chose was published on July 31, 2022 and was “Brazil, elected the best sporting nation by FIFAe”. Can you explain to us why you chose this news and then, as the challenge asks, comment on it?
(NCG): Of course, football and Brazil have everything to do with it, right? So, even more in the year of the World Cup, this year 2022 and I as a Brazilian and a good football lover feel free to comment and praise this award received by Brazil.
I also praise the partnership between Brazilian football and Moroccan football. My team in Brazil, which is Cruzeiro Esporte Clube, they have a great friendship, with a Moroccan team that is the Raja Casablanca team.
The teams always greet each other on the Internet, greet each other on Twitter and, so it is in this panorama of football friendship between Brazil and Morocco, I praise our participation, as a power in "e-sports" in electronic sports and I am happy that Brazil has already started off on the right foot in a World Cup year.
I hope that in November, we end the year on the right foot, too, winning the cup.
(BAD): Well, Nilson, I would like to thank you very much for your participation, I know that your time is scarce, but I hope that this interview has helped to put Brazil on the promotion route, both in Africa and in Europe, to know what really Brazil does.
Today we will stop here, but who knows, we can talk again in the near future. Thank you.
(NCG): Thanks. I really appreciate the opportunity to talk about our work, it is a source of pride for us, the work we do here. We are very pleased to carry out this work, to be able to contribute so that our country exports more, our country is more seen, better known in a realistic way by foreign countries.
I am very happy to also be able to help Morocco, to know more about Brazil, to trade more with Brazil, it is a country that I learned to love, without a doubt here, for almost 4 years in the country and with a Moroccan daughter , my daughter born here, the youngest. So it's a country that I learned to like.
And I also leave a message, the position of agricultural attaché, it is a position that every 4 years we change the attaché, I am finishing my period here.
As of next year, she will be a colleague, also from the Ministry of Agriculture, also a federal agricultural tax auditor, her name is Ellen Laurindo, extremely competent and I wish her good luck from January onwards, she will be our agricultural attaché here in Rabat
(BAD): Nilson, once again, thank you very much for your participation.
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Picture: © 2022 Francisco Lopes-Santos