Exclusive Interview with Mais Afrika by Mr. Ambassador, Francisco Luz, Consul General of Brazil in Nigeria.
Please accept YouTube cookies to play this video. By accepting you will be accessing content from YouTube, a service provided by an external third party.
If you accept this notice, your choice will be saved and the page will refresh.
-------------------------------
Accept YouTube cookies to play this video. By accepting, you will be accessing content from YouTube, a service provided by third parties.
If you accept, your choice will be saved and the page will refresh.
Brazil: The most African country in the worldthe world outside of Africa.
Brazil is the most African country in the world that is not in Africa. Controversial statement, isn't it? However, according to Mr. Ambassador Francisco Luz, so it is.
In this seventh Great Interview, we got to know Francisco Luz, a born conversationalist with an exceptional African culture and we had a very pleasant time during the interview.
Not only did we get to know his fabulous journey, but we also got to know the African continent better, seen through the eyes of those who come from outside, but who have a great love for the continent. We understand how the media transform such a diverse continent into a common reductive stereotype, treating Africa as if it were a “mere country”.
We got to know the influence of the Yoruba in Brazil and the historical connections that Brazil and the Kingdom of Benin have shared since 1770, but not only. We realized how Brazil is dependent on Agricultural Urea and how the commercial exchange between Brazil and Nigeria is so important.
Anyway, it was an enlightening conversation, on these and other subjects, which is worth seeing/reading. So, don't waste time and watch this very interesting interview on our YouTube Channel, +Afrika, or if you prefer, read the full interview here.
The interview
More Afrika (BAD): Good afternoon Mr Ambassador Francisco Cruz, it is a pleasure to be here with you. To start this interview and for our listeners to get to know you a little better, can you tell us who you are, what are your current roles and also tell us a little about your journey to the present day?
Francisco Luz (FL): Good afternoon Francisco, it's a pleasure to be here on the Mais Afrika channel. I have been a career diplomat at Itamaraty for 39 years. I started my career in technical cooperation in Brazil, then I went to Argentina, to the Embassy in Buenos Aires, then to our Embassy in Cuba, in Havana, from there I returned to Brazil.
I worked in the area of communications and administration and then I returned abroad, as ambassador of Brazil in Washington. From there, I went to Pretoria, South Africa, to the Embassy in Maputo, where I was Minister Counselor. Then my first post as ambassador to Africa was in Tanzania, where I also took care of Seychelles, Comoros and was the representative of Brazil in the East African community.
I stayed there for six years, then moved to the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan and stayed four years and four months in Amman and, since October 2019, I have been here in Lagos as Consul General of Brazil in this city.
(BAD): Mr. Ambassador, at this time Mr. you are the Consul General of Brazil in Lagos, Nigeria, but you have held other positions in Africa, more precisely in South Africa, Mozambique and Tanzania, as you have just reported. On your journey through these countries, did you find many differences between them or can we say that there is a common African identity?
(FL): It was a total of 18 years that I complete now on the 18th of October, I complete 18 years in Africa and look, I can say that nothing is further from the stereotype that Africa is a unique thing, than the reality that I saw in these 18 years. years, across the 27 countries I visited. The continent is very diverse, both in terms of population, language, religion, cultural background, even geography.
Every corner surprises you in a positive way, you have countries that are subtropical and of an impressive beauty like Swaziland, today Eswatini and Mozambique, the Indian coast has beautiful beaches, in Tanzania in Kenya and Mozambique, the island of Bazaruto, Zanzibar, Mafia Island are spectacular places and the savannah, nature, national parks, is a very, very beautiful region with a lot of diversity.
What we see is the stereotype that we have and that is transmitted by the media, it is the stereotype that I am feeling, it is the reality that I live here, Nigeria concentrates, practically all these stereotypes of an Africa with problems, of a Rich Africa, Lagos, Nigeria is the continent's largest economy and the city of Lagos has the eighth GDP in Africa.
So there is a lot of wealth and at the same time a lot of poverty, a lot of problems, everything that we see in the media. But that's not all, the continent is very complex and in my view it is the continent of the Future, it is the only continent that will show growth and that has the capacity to feed the world in the future.
(BAD): In fact, I agree with you about these stereotypes that are made about Africa and it is curious to see that one of the most common stereotypes in Africa is cultural. And this stereotype is due a lot, interestingly, there is a region where it is at this moment or part of it that has to do with the Yoruba, since the Yoruba are the largest ethnic-linguistic group in West Africa and one of the largest in Africa.
Its influence in Brazil is extremely strong, Yoruba culture not only gave rise to Candomblé in Brazil, but also, in 2018, Rio de Janeiro was the first to recognize Yoruba as intangible heritage. Is it fair to say that Brazil is the closest non-African country to Africa?
(FL): Look, Francisco, I have no doubt about that, my experience here is really, it's very interesting and intense in these ties and that generates a soft power huge for Brazil here in Nigeria, because we feel at home, they feel very comfortable with Brazilians, they love to travel to Brazil and we have been working to try to bring that closer.
Not only, through greater knowledge, of putting the Organizations that represent the Yoruba community in Brazil, in contact with institutions here in Nigeria, but trying to make co-productions of films, television programs, musical collaborations, theatrical collaborations, in any activity art that brings these two cultures closer together.
You mentioned Rio de Janeiro but that's not all, Salvador is considered the Yoruba capital of the Americas and Salvador has also made the Yoruba language the official language of the city and is taught in the city's public schools, so these are types of initiatives that bring these closest societies.
The other day, at our September 7th event, I not only received the Oni of faith who is the religious leader of the entire Yoruba nation, but I also received about a dozen Kings or representatives of Kings, such as the King of Benin who was the third head of state to recognize Brazil's independence, on July 20, 1824, even before Portugal and the United Kingdom recognized it.
He was only surpassed by Argentina and the United States who recognized before him and he not only recognized, but appointed an ambassador and that Ambassador represented the kingdom of Benin and 13 other kingdoms that paid allegiance to King Osemwende at that time.
These relations even predate Independence, the king of Onim, which is today the region of Lagos, already had the first Ambassador that he sent to Brazil, it was in 1770 when a representative of his arrived in Salvador, then capital of the colony, and he represented the interests of the kingdom of Onim with the Brazilian colony.
So, these are very strong historical, cultural relationships, with influences on our cuisine, our culture, our music, our way of being, the national identity of Brazilians and I believe that today in Brazil, at least 20 million people could seek their ancestral ties in this region of Africa.
(BAD): Mr. Ambassador, interestingly, when we started this series of interviews, the first one was with Cleber Guarani who is the president of CIITTA who is behind the project, Brazil-Nigeria Green Imperative, a project that aims to boost Nigerian livestock, increasing the food security of the country.
This project, which started a few years ago, will bring many benefits to both Nigeria and Brazil. What is your assessment of this project and what results do you think this project can achieve?
(FL): Look, the Green Imperative initiative, I consider it to be the main Brazilian initiative in the area of agriculture worldwide. It's a $1.1 billion, five-year project. It started to be traded seven years ago. In 2019, the agreement was finally signed and now, three years later, all the documentation was finally signed earlier this year.
The congress here took a year to study it, the Ministry of Agriculture took a year to create the internal infrastructure to absorb the technology that will be transferred by CIITTA, as Cléber Guarani mentioned there. Now, on the 8th, we held the Brazil-Africa Business Forum here in Lagos, we had the entire morning module dedicated to agriculture.
Cléber had the opportunity to present our agricultural potential and the potential for technology transfer in this area and we had the physical presence of the Nigerian government's focal point for the initiative, Dr. Andrew Kwasari who is the special adviser to the Vice President of the Republic for agriculture.
The debate started to get so intense that we had to cancel some presentations for us to conclude, because of the great interest that this issue of Agriculture generated in the audience.
I think that Brazil's focus, first of all, is this situation that we are experiencing today, with so many challenges that brought us, a pandemic, followed by a conflict in Europe, in countries that had great influence on the world's food energy security. , I think this brought possibilities for Brazil and for the African continent that we cannot fail to take advantage of.
We have to, somehow, cooperate as much as possible, so that Brazil and Nigeria, as the largest economy in Africa, we are one of the main factors of food and energy security in the world and I believe that the Green Imperative, be the main objective.
It's just that, 30 years after our agricultural revolution, our Green revolution, we have the ability to transfer to the continent a technology that is much more suitable for the reality of these countries, mainly here, because we have the same climate and the same geography. the same cultures.
The objective is for Brazil, not to continue exporting, sugar, rice, cotton, meat, chicken, dairy products, to these countries, is that these countries have our technology, we prefer to sell the machines and transfer the technology and work together to ensure the world's food security.
(BAD): Continuing, in a way, in agriculture, here is an interesting topic, in my opinion, which is the issue of the Dangote agricultural urea plant, which recently started operating in March and has already made a profit of 130%, much of it obtained through sales to Brazil.
And it is not the only company in this situation, we also have Indorama, we have Notore, that is, what I see is that the Brazilian market absorbs a lot of this Nigerian urea. Can you explain to me the importance of Nigerian urea for Brazil?
(FL): Look at Nigeria since 2015, it had been exporting urea to Brazil, but in very small amounts, 10, 15, 30 million dollars, it had been the best year. Brazil is a country very dependent on these agricultural inputs, our consumption is the second largest in the world and we import 6 million tons of urea per year.
And with that, with the crisis in Russia, which was our second largest supplier, this opportunity opened up for Nigeria to occupy this space. It is much closer to logistics, it is much easier and the existence of the Dangote project that, despite having been officially opened in March, had already been producing and exporting to Brazil since October.
So, last year they already exported 200 million dollars in urea to Brazil and Brazilian companies, even before the conflict in Eastern Europe, had already started. I started to receive inquiries since July of last year, for urea export.
I don't know if they already felt that this crisis could occur, but I think that, for the simple fact of the entry into production of a unit of one and a half million tons, it would pave the way for another customer and that it would help to reduce the price in the Global Market .
That's not what happened. Nigerian urea is the most expensive for us, but it's the only one available, and with that, trade statistics have skyrocketed. In 2020, we had a trade just over a billion. Bilateral trade last year, we hit almost two billion and this year, this August alone, we have already reached 1 billion and 800, with 600 million exports of urea to Brazil.
Brazil currently buys 60% of production, not only from Dangote, but also from Notore, Indorama and a smaller company called Golden Resource.
So it's a market and why is this important? First, there was already logistics, the ships that bring sugar from Brazil were returning empty, then the cargo ships, the company means Dangote is the main buyer of sugar and is now the main exporter and they use their own logistics, which reduced freight significantly and increases their profit.
We are now returning to our historic 30-year deficit with Nigeria. We had a year of surplus with Nigeria and our trade peaked at over 11 billion dollars and this year it should close, keeping the average export in the first eight months, we should be very close to 2 billion and half a dollar in trade with a surplus in favor of Nigeria over a billion.
(BAD): Mr. Ambassador, to end this part of the interview I would like to ask one last question on a complex topic. Economic growth in Nigeria is being done exponentially, however social development is apparently not keeping pace with this development. Is this really a reality? And if so, what do you think could be done to reverse this trend?
(FL): Look unfortunately it is. The growth today, the last quarter data, surprised economists, the growth was 3,6%. Unfortunately the country has structural problems in which a growth of 3,6% unfortunately does not reduce poverty, it simply maintains the level of wealth because the population growth is very high.
So much so that they passed Brazil last year. At the beginning of this year, in terms of population, they are already the sixth largest population in the world and they say that in 20 years they will even pass the United States and become the third most populous country in the world.
At this rate of growth, the economy would need to grow at the Chinese level of the past decade, 10% a year, in order to start lifting people out of poverty. Obviously, there is already a small growth in the middle class, there is already a demand for international tourism that did not exist years ago, it was only the elite that traveled, now, you can already see,
With the pandemic and the economic crisis, since 2008, Nigeria has maintained this growth above 3%. But thanks, not to the basic sector of the economy, which was oil, it was due to the growth of the services sector, basically and, now, more recently, with the fertilizers area, that is to say, the Industrial sector has also been giving a very large collaboration, but it is the service sector that has grown.
Nigeria has taken advantage of opportunities and, for example, Africa has seven unicorn companies, seven companies that in less than five years have reached a market value of over billion dollars, five are in Nigeria, four here in Lagos.
It is for you to see that the potential dynamism of the economy in terms of entrepreneurship is very high and the simple size of the market, which will reach 400 million dollars and 400 million people in 2050, will make this country, one of the main drivers of world growth.
Big companies will have to start paying attention to Nigeria. It's no wonder that Microsoft has just opened the first software development center here, with 500 Engineers in a state-of-the-art building. Google brought Cabo Equiano, to stop here in Lagos.
The American consulate that is being built here in Lagos will be the largest in the world, at a cost of 560 million dollars, and it will be the focal point for the entrance of the US government's Intranet to the entire African continent, so I mean this sector. technology services, the banking sector, the start-up sector, including Agritex, this has shown very strong growth.
Nigeria currently has 5 start-ups, which is 10 times more than Kenya, which has 500, and if you add South Africa and everyone at the same level, South Africa, Egypt and whoever owns 500 start-ups , you add them all together, the second, third, fourth, fifth, sixth, seventh, it doesn't actually give the number of start-ups that exist here in the Nigerian market today.
So that demonstrates the dynamism and demonstrates what this segment of the new economy is all about. And also from the creative economy, few people realize that Nollywood, today is the second largest content launch platform in the world and is not second after Hollywood, it is second after Bollywood.
Hollywood has already been overtaken by Nollywood, which produces more than 800 films a year and dominates the market on platforms, such as DStv, which reaches not only the African continent, but also the Middle East.
So it's something that Brazilian businessmen need to wake up to the reality of the African continent, not thinking about now, they have to think about 2030 onwards. The reality today is hard, it is difficult, it is not easy to do business here, but it is necessary to have perseverance and understand the market and set up your strategies.
Anyone who doesn't set foot now will have a hard time getting into 2030, when this is one of the biggest expanding markets in the world. They are one of the things we discuss most with entrepreneurs when they come to us to talk about Africa.
That was the focus, that was the message that I tried to convey at the event on the 8th, which was the first Business Forum held here in Lagos, in the last 10 years, between Brazilian and Nigerian entrepreneurs and I was fortunate to have the physical presence of Fusion, with four people, from Positivo BGH, Embraer and other smaller entrepreneurs in Rio de Janeiro.
(BAD): In fact, Africa is going to be the future, we are seeing this exponential growth, not only in Nigeria. We are seeing, for example, South Africa becoming the new silicon valley, we are seeing other African countries emerging and growing in a way that I think the rest of the world has not yet noticed.
Even at the level of new energies. To mean. Africa currently has the countries that pollute the least, it is the continent that pollutes the least and is the one that grows the most in terms of renewable energy.
Therefore, it will in fact be the continent of the future and I think the rest of the world is not prepared for this because Africa always comes like the poor people who were our colonized, they are the poor poor people, they are nobody and, suddenly, they go come across this and they won't know where it's going to come from. And it's a fact that anyone who doesn't take the boat now will be left behind, there's no doubt about that.
(FL): In fact, Francisco, what I see, at least that's my point of view, Africa is very diverse and the information that arrives is sometimes not true or reliable information, the continent is huge, we are talking about 54 countries and only four or five information arrive.
Those who take time to change will not be able to take advantage of all the possibilities in the future. It is very important to have a strategy for the future, the Chinese have already seen this, the Turks have already seen this, the Koreans have already seen this, everyone has a strategy for 10 years from now, our entrepreneurs need to wake up and really start looking at the future. continent with more interest, focusing more on possibilities than challenges.
(BAD): I think it's a matter of positioning too, Mr. Ambassador, it starts with a government strategy, perhaps with an alliance with all embassies and bilateral information.
(FL): Yes, because we have to see the source. For example, if you get data from sources that deal with humanitarian aid, it's obvious that they'll want to take it easy, to even make it easier for donors to put a lot of money, but that's not it, we have to bring our private sectors closer, the people who produce, people who buy, for them to see that there is potential.
I think the businessmen who came here were very surprised by the city. Obviously it's a monstrous city, it has a lot of problems, but it also has things that you wouldn't believe exist, some modernist buildings, very modern structures, the banking system that works over the phone, I make all payments over the phone, so it's a modern economy and everyone connected.
People have no idea about this, it's a shame, we have to carry out more promotion and dissemination actions so that people really get to know the continent. You can only break this narrative with knowledge with information.
(BAD): Mr. Ambassador on our part is everything, thank you very much for the time you have given us and, who knows, until next time.
What did you think of this interview? Do you get to know Brazil's potential better? We want to know your opinion, do not hesitate to comment and if you liked the article, share and give a “like/like”.
Picture: © 2022 Francisco Lopes-Santos
